Curse

Wasteland Squidget · Jun 07, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

Yeah, we did TA yesterday and crushed a lot of these as well. They're not at all impressive against any kind of organized PvP. They just fit well into the mechanics of RA because they're pretty self-sufficent and only a few skills counter them (albeit good skills that most organized teams will bring.)

I will say though that one of the more fun builds we put together during frozen ladder was four touch rangers, two water eles, and two monks. We rolled through a lot of low-ranked guilds at the flagstand, though of course anyone with any experience or coordination could beat us. It was a lot of fun though.

Jetdoc · Jun 07, 2006, 06:46 PM // 18:46

So what I can gather from this is that the best way to counter a Touch Rangers is crippling them (via the condition or Crippling Anguish/the like) + kiting + degeneration spamming. The key there, obviously, is taking out the enemy monk quickly to avoid hex removal.

What about e-denial? I know that some touch rangers carry OoB, but if he's running at zero energy, that will get off only one vamp touch.

Egg Shen · Jun 07, 2006, 07:45 PM // 19:45

Not so.

He'll get off off a number of skills, because their cost is so dramatically reduced by expertise. E-denail is helpful, but when running an elite as good at re-couping energy as OoB is, it's really just a thorn in their side.

A quick focus swap in order to fire off an OoB (which might be recharging abnormally fast thanks to their choice of weapons), and they are back in business.

Sacho · Jun 08, 2006, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Where are you getting the "high dps" idea from? 28 dps, with no ability to do burst damage...?

Jetdoc · Jun 08, 2006, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Egg Shen

Not so.

He'll get off off a number of skills, because their cost is so dramatically reduced by expertise. E-denail is helpful, but when running an elite as good at re-couping energy as OoB is, it's really just a thorn in their side.

A quick focus swap in order to fire off an OoB (which might be recharging abnormally fast thanks to their choice of weapons), and they are back in business.

D'oH - forgot that Expertise substantially reduces the cost of Vamp Touch (which is the whole premise behind Touch Rangers). Duhhhh.....

Tarcus · Jun 09, 2006, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Been running a diversion/edenial mesmer in RA. Great fun to here touchers either flaming you or complementing you after a game

Kills there build completely since they spam there 2-3 touch skills.

Diversion - Hex Spell
For 6 seconds, the next time target foe uses a skill, that skill takes an additional 10-47 seconds to recharge.

LightningHell · Jun 09, 2006, 02:00 PM // 14:00

We all know what Diversion is.

Glyph/Recovery Domination FTW!

Blackout serves as a temporary retreat too.

zulu123 · Jun 09, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacho

Where are you getting the "high dps" idea from? 28 dps, with no ability to do burst damage...?

Pretty sure that 65 damage at attribute of 12 blood for each Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite comes to 65 dps. Oh and dont forget its armor ignoring and self healing.

Symbol · Jun 09, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Pretty sure that 65 damage at attribute of 12 blood for each Vampiric Touch and Vampiric Bite comes to 65 dps. Oh and dont forget its armor ignoring and self healing.

No it isn't. Necro touches are .75 secs with the standard .75 sec aftercast (tested this with plague touch). That means you get 65/1.5 = 43.33 dps.

Divineshadows · Jun 09, 2006, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Symbol

No it isn't. Necro touches are .75 secs with the standard .75 sec aftercast (tested this with plague touch). That means you get 65/1.5 = 43.33 dps.

This figure of 43.33 dps also assumes infinite energy and non-kiting opponents which are horrible assumptions to make. With heavy snaring support touch rangers become a bit better, but they still lack the knockdown disruption and quick spiking ability of a warrior.

AhuraMazda · Jun 10, 2006, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Kill their monk if they have one, take out any other extremelly dangerous foes, then gang up on them.

You could make a counter build to their build, and so on and so forth, or you could simply play better. A touch ranger can easilly be taken out by two warriors, as long as they dont just stand and die.

You can take one out solo, but it is a difficult task, the best way is to nail their monk and then gang up on it.

Aundora Rayne · Jun 10, 2006, 09:14 PM // 21:14

I must say i am saddend by the close mindedness of many of the contributors of this forum.

I would agree that the build has most likely come from a bug, that ANET never intended for this to be an available build and no ranger expertise shouldnt really reduce the energy cost in the way it does, HOWEVER:-

1. The build is an extremely fun build to play, for any skill level of player.

This does not mean that there is no skill element to the touch ranger, the build still requires an experienced player to gain advantage of all of the benifits.

any experienced player complaining that this a build a "noob" can use to beat him/her is pathetic. The touch ranger build is easily countered, it does not give "godly" status to a player- modify your build to counter it.

The idea behind playing guild wars is about having fun, and this is extremely fun to play

A list of ways to counter the build:

Keep the touch ranger away:

Pin Down
Crippling Shot
Ward against Foes
Imagined Burden
Crippling Anguish
Teleportation
Knockdown

Counter-act the healing/damage

Diversion
Scourge Sacrifice
Degen - Life Transfer/Conjure nightmare

We played 4vs4 in TA against 3 touch rangers and a monk, and then 4 touch rangers. With one of the rangers being crippled by a team mate and another slowed with imagined burden, the damage output is completely reduced.

I think since the new touch ranger build has come out alot of ppl who were comfortably winning 10 consec in a row in RA/TA now find they cant. Its time to modify your builds (which is obviously causing people to grumble). Please please stop moaning to anet about how this build is unfair, because it isnt actually that powerful.

Playing a touch ranger as a runner/anti-tank/life stealer is a great addition to a balanced team. It has brought new life to RA/TA making people think of new counters.

Every build has its strengths and weakness - thats the beauty of Guild Wars, just because the touch ranger found yours, doesnt mean it should be nerfd.

-aundora

Dravyn · Jun 12, 2006, 09:43 PM // 21:43

Sure, as a warrior I'd love to have all my damage and healing piled into the first two slots on my skill bar, so I could devote the other six to defensive stances, etc. That's my only beef with touchers..they do way too much damage way too fast for the utility available to them.

That being said, I figured out how to beat them as a warrior/necro and it doesn't involve the stupidity of crippling and kiting. As if any touch ranger wouldn't have plague touch on his bar...crippling shot rarely keeps me down, i seriously doubt if it would slow down a touch ranger. Besides, it insults my integrity as a warrior to suggest that I kite something..I spend all day chasing monks as it is.

For those other warriors out there, remember that you can frenzy through vamp bite/touch.

stueyman2099 · Jun 13, 2006, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aundora Rayne

any experienced player complaining that this a build a "noob" can use to beat him/her is pathetic.

I wouldn't call this person an experienced player. Any experienced player should know that in a 1v1 scenario, GW is mostly rock paper scissors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Besides, it insults my integrity as a warrior to suggest that I kite something

That notion is a silly as an ele standing around taking it from a warrior because their spells take time to cast. Your extra armor does NOTHING. If you want to sit there and soak up damage for your monks to heal, I wish you luck vs touch rangers.

As a warrior though, how many attack skills do you have, and how many for utility? personaly, I find myself with 3 attack skills + frenzy to further multiply my damage. after that, it's alll utility, not to mention 1 of my attack skills almost always is mostly utility (axe rake for instance). They get more, sure, but you can do alot more potential damage than they can.

JR · Jun 13, 2006, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dravyn

Besides, it insults my integrity as a warrior to suggest that I kite something..

Playing to win has nothing to do with integrity, honor or any other of that complete and utter garbage. This is a game. A certain amount of sportsmanship yes, but intentionally playing badly because of some ridiculous code of conduct is just silly.

Jetdoc · Jun 13, 2006, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aundora Rayne

A list of ways to counter the build:

Keep the touch ranger away:

Pin Down
Crippling Shot
Ward against Foes
Imagined Burden
Crippling Anguish
Teleportation
Knockdown

A couple that were missed

* Ethereal Burden
* Traps that Cripple (are especially effective, as the normal touch ranger rushes in - we may have the latest Whammo mentality)

Skuld · Jun 13, 2006, 06:17 PM // 18:17

Hehe hi aundora

Don't forget Caltrops and Blinding Powder. I've found playing a thumper very effective against them, they're on the floor too much to heal and it's even better if they use whirling defense!

Loch · Jun 14, 2006, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

This figure of 43.33 dps also assumes infinite energy and non-kiting opponents which are horrible assumptions to make.

When comparing DPS's of different classes, you shouldn't take into account how much can and will be mitigated. As Ensign said in the "Why Nuking Sucks" topic, the raw numbers say the most because it's those numbers that force you to mitigate the damage in some way or another.

Touch rangers suck because they have to use touch skills constantly just to keep up (approximately) with an autoattacking warrior. The warrior, on the other hand, will eventually adrenal-spike or knockdown-chain, which is ridiculously more valuable than the slow, predictable, steady stream of lifesteal that a touch ranger administers.

In short, touch rangers are absolute trash when monks are involved.

LoyalSoldier · Jun 14, 2006, 06:44 AM // 06:44

Here is what I have collected playing as one for a while.

1. The build is very effect against monks. The monks that survive the best against it are Healing monks. Prot monks just die because their spells do nothing.

2. The build is very delicate. If one skill is disabled the build is useless.

3. The build is very prone to hexes. Most degens can be overcome, but if a degen is used while being attacked by another damage dealer the build can't overcome the damage. The Hexes will basically neutralize the healing power

4. Diversion is the Touch killer. If you use one of the Vampirics under that you are better off dead. It is the backfire skill for this build.

5. Cripple only works from a distance when no friendlies are around the TR. If he gets close enough to put it on you then it only helps him. I killed a trapper by using the cripple from his barbed trap.

6. Never try to outdamage them 1-1. You will almost always lose.

Dravyn · Jun 14, 2006, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Playing to win has nothing to do with integrity, honor or any other of that complete and utter garbage. This is a game. A certain amount of sportsmanship yes, but intentionally playing badly because of some ridiculous code of conduct is just silly.

Learn to identify humor and sarcasm...I threw that in there because trying to cripple a touch ranger while he can still touch you is a waste of energy and will only get yourself crippled. But you're smart enough I didn't need to spell that out for you...right?